tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8152579395264351661.post4278192665134295266..comments2023-08-08T13:07:35.010+02:00Comments on Hellenic report: The trouble with GeorgeHellenic reporterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12801796032504172870noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8152579395264351661.post-71113258542158006222009-08-20T21:09:30.291+02:002009-08-20T21:09:30.291+02:00He is, indeed, quite a character and I certainly d...He is, indeed, quite a character and I certainly disagree with many of his political choices and, from what little I understand of finance, I am not sure I would support his currency dealings either (unless I stood to gain from them financially, of course!). But all this does not make Soros a tool (or instigator, depending on your perspective) of the "worldwide Zionist conspiracy" against Greece.Hellenic reporterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12801796032504172870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8152579395264351661.post-44349943016042012062009-08-19T08:55:56.471+02:002009-08-19T08:55:56.471+02:00Granted! The Soros/Greece thing is nothing but fic...Granted! The Soros/Greece thing is nothing but fiction, but what a character. He recently admitted to unsuccessfully attempting to drive the HK dollar down and congratulated the HK government for its quick reaction against it. He felt fine with his actions as they were not against the law or regulations.White Guy Abroadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10057090579475623921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8152579395264351661.post-1284088182877408532009-06-19T02:34:19.747+02:002009-06-19T02:34:19.747+02:00Yes, I see what you are saying. It is a fine line ...Yes, I see what you are saying. It is a fine line to draw between holding people accountable for racist statements but, by doing so, giving more publicity that they might otherwise get. My view is that actions, such as destruction of property, public or private, have to have a response, whereas words not always. It really depends who says it and, as you indicate, who the audience is, so maybe Seraphim and his "flock" are too intellectually feeble to bother with.Hellenic reporterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12801796032504172870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8152579395264351661.post-67280527375829600272009-06-18T18:19:09.540+02:002009-06-18T18:19:09.540+02:00all anti-anything is bad. All desecrations are be ...all anti-anything is bad. All desecrations are be condemned. However, the emotional and intelectual level of any Seraphim's market target may not be ...outstanding. I would suggest that one should address despicable statements in a way that put the onus on the person making such pronouncements. Drawing a line and drawing attention only to one group of offended parties only plays to the hands of those who would gladly generalize in their racist comments. This sounds confusing but you know what I mean... I am not suggesting appeasement, I am suggesting hitting the idiots where they hurt rather than hiding behind labels.Daniel Websterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03004780956275001786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8152579395264351661.post-3721155729645016572009-06-18T13:13:11.016+02:002009-06-18T13:13:11.016+02:00I had a Jewish classmate at school whose last name...I had a Jewish classmate at school whose last name was definitely not Jewish, it had been changed to hide the family's Jewish identity. But I am not arguing that Jews, in general, personally feel threatened or harassed in Greece, I think most are not, which is what Jewish acquaintances also tell me, that they have not encountered personal acts of antisemitism. Nobody has refused to sell them bread, for instance, or repair their cars or has stopped coming to their store because they were Jewish. The problem is elsewhere: When a Jewish cemetery is desecrated, or a Jewish monument is vandalized, or when a Greek Orthodox bishop or a leftist musician makes blatant antisemitic comments to the media, or when a more-or-less mainstream newspaper has on its front page a huge antisemitic title, hardly anyone bats an eye. Imagine if, say, the Catholic archbishop of Marseilles made comments regrading the alleged worldwide Zionist conspiracy similar to Pireaus' Seraphim recent remarks; there would be overwhelming condemnation by church and secular authorities, unlike Greece. Similarly, desecration of monuments or cemeteries elsewhere might elicit marches and public protests, but not in Greece. The bottom line is that Greeks may not be willing to participate in antisemitic acts in significant numbers (that's a good thing, of course) but they also do not consider such acts worthy of commentary or condemnation. And my sense is that many Greeks, although they may find the more extreme antisemitic language or acts of vandalism against Jewish targets distasteful, they nevertheless believe that there must be some truth in antisemitic statements or that acts of vandalism and even violence are brought on by the actions of the targets, that is that the Jews are partly to blame.Hellenic reporterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12801796032504172870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8152579395264351661.post-76308359837200715592009-06-17T19:13:10.836+02:002009-06-17T19:13:10.836+02:00I can't say that my sample of people with what...I can't say that my sample of people with what might be Jewish names is statistically significant to draw conclusions. But I have not sensed any particular anxiety. I know of one case in which the wife became Jewish to satisfy an aging mother in law to be. I know a guy who was all tensed up with politics regarding the Museum and its leaders. I know of no one that felt pressured internally or externally to change names (unlike ...George, whom I looked up in Wikipedia after your write- up).<br /><br />You may have been visiting Greek blogs. You may have noticed that only a tiny minority shares the belief that Greeks are OK. Of course, you go and leave a pro-Macedonian-Skopian comment you may see a different image. Greeks are not anti semites, nor do they really think in such terms. They often support the ...Palestinians, but more on the theory of supporting the underdog and much less for tever affinity the Palestinians have with the Pelasgians. (By the way, recent excavation in Ashkelon hint to the possibility that Goliath might be quite like a wandering Mycenean warlord).<br /><br />Greeks have fallen for the anti immigrant rhetoric of other bizare Europeans. Gastarbeiter I believe they call it in central europe. But that is also a sign of the recession, as few Greeks can really envision survival without Philipino and Albanian (and recently Ukranian help).<br /><br />You will find anti Semitic rubbish but it is not mainstream, really. Younger guys know nothing of the Jewish cemetery that became the Salonica University, but older people know the fact. I would be more interested in another statistic: How many Greeks like the central european approach? How does their percentage compare with the percentage of active and silent collaborators in WWII. That is where you may find a little antisemitism.<br /><br />What you see as hellenic nationalism in 90% of the local blogs is more a reaction to german sponsored corruption rather than antisemitism... (at least that is what I see with my bias)Daniel Websterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03004780956275001786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8152579395264351661.post-33790990776730484922009-06-17T17:59:44.395+02:002009-06-17T17:59:44.395+02:00@Daniel Webster (2nd comment)
I had assumed (I hop...@Daniel Webster (2nd comment)<br />I had assumed (I hope correctly) that "Albanian-descended Greek" was using hyperbole to make a point and that he was not insulting wholesale all Greek people. Because, while there are some (many?) who believe that Greeks can, indeed, do no wrong and deserve to be admired, pampered and generally be shown great deference (don't know about sexual favors), I certainly do not believe that all or even most Greeks think this way. As for our individual genetic makeup, I suspect that if we were to be tested we would find that we are not significantly different than our Balkan neighbors, as a scientific study (as opposed to the pseudo-scientific study that is cited by the inhabitants of the Former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia) showed ["Correlation between Genetic and Geographic Structure in Europe" in Current Biology 18, 1241–1248, August 26, 2008].Hellenic reporterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12801796032504172870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8152579395264351661.post-63765134486582690362009-06-17T17:27:58.983+02:002009-06-17T17:27:58.983+02:00I will freely admit that I know fewer Greek Jews t...I will freely admit that I know fewer Greek Jews than I have known American Jews, at least well enough to talk about their experiences with the petty day-to-day antisemitism in their environment. Perhaps this is because many Greek Jews are reluctant to speak out in public and even in private about this, probably due to a mix of fear of retaliation and old-fashioned Greek attitudes of the type "Τα εν οίκω μη εν δήμω". But those with whom I have had this conversation, while acknowledging and expressing concerns about public acts of anisemitism such as antisemitic graffiti, desecration of Jewish monuments and graveyards, occasional antisemitic articles in the mainstream media and such, are most disturbed by the nearly complete lack of reaction by the "silent" majority of Greeks to such acts and words. And while I agree about the scapegoating issue during difficult times, I am still puzzled about the emergence of Jews as scapegoats in Greece, since there's no history of antagonisms or conflicting (real or spurious) territorial or other claims, unlike, as I mentioned previously, with Turks, Albanians, Americans, etc.<br /><br />As for Mr. Soros, what I find most ironic (and not a little disturbing) is that the Democratic Party in the United States now has more visible millionaires and billionaires among its active financial supporters than the Republican Party, as Mr. Soros, although more vocal than most, is certainly not alone in his support. Yet they still claim to represent the working people. Go figure...Hellenic reporterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12801796032504172870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8152579395264351661.post-61958153534834622252009-06-17T16:53:18.035+02:002009-06-17T16:53:18.035+02:00may I also add that a large part of modern day Gre...may I also add that a large part of modern day Greeks is of albanian descent, but I consider the above comment by the Albanian descended Greek as ...biased. I was born in Greece, never figured out my DNA makeup, I do not believe I need any pampering or random sexual services, and I typically lookk down upon biased comments.Daniel Websterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03004780956275001786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8152579395264351661.post-39579532061588053512009-06-17T16:39:09.114+02:002009-06-17T16:39:09.114+02:00Hmmm... I didn't know that he was Jewish. I kn...Hmmm... I didn't know that he was Jewish. I knew that he was anti-Republican. I am not with the IRS and therefore cannot worry about his income; some of his investment products heard about in Greece are for the birds.<br /><br />Now regarding antisemitism, I believe that the main culprit is central Europe. In Greece there have been antisemitic tones in certain aspects of (a) our church and (b) our oil importers and their media. However it is a minor factor rather than a major factor, to paraphrase from graduate school multiple choice exams. In times of failing expectations, people can easily be led to blame scapegoats. I have seen the West (the transatlantic west) to be a scapegoat, but as we have discussed in the past that is hypocritical. A Greek waiter in Rethimno is as much of a guilty party as an arbitrageur in NY. Human greed is human and any attempt to paint ideological, ethnic, racial or ...religious overtones is silly. It happens, but it is silly.<br /><br />There are several Greeks that have names indicating that they might be Jewish... You should seek them out and assess wether there is antisemitism in Greece. I fully realize that their numbers are much smaller these days than, say, 70 years ago.<br /><br />Back to Soros... his main problem is his seeming affiliation with ...Democrats.Daniel Websterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03004780956275001786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8152579395264351661.post-36571377212517903862009-06-15T22:33:24.586+02:002009-06-15T22:33:24.586+02:00Well, as you may have noticed I have stayed clear ...Well, as you may have noticed I have stayed clear of any comments regarding Greek attitudes towards other nations and peoples in general and instead I have chosen to concentrate on the attitudes of Greeks towards the Jews, which, of course, includes Greeks of Jewish descent. Two reasons for this: First the sad and bloody history of antisemitism in Europe and the disturbing realization that although Greeks have so far managed to avoid becoming embroiled in the worst aspects of antisemitism, as of late they seem to want to make up for lost time. Second, because one can argue that the all other bugbears of Greek nationalism (Turks, Albanians, FYRO Macedonians, Americans, whatever) have, at some point, been in conflict with Greece or at least a faction of the Greek population (e.g. Americans and the communists after WWII) and such conflicts generate a great deal of ill will which sometimes persists for a long time. But there has never been a conflict with Jews, so Greek antisemitism is based on fiction and malice.Hellenic reporterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12801796032504172870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8152579395264351661.post-50409082042650210152009-06-15T13:59:24.868+02:002009-06-15T13:59:24.868+02:00Well y'know, that's how it goes:
Axiom:
Je...Well y'know, that's how it goes:<br />Axiom:<br />Jew bad - Greek good.<br />Corollaries:<br />-Greek people can do no wrong. Jewish people can do no right.<br />-Anybody that doesn't recognize the vast superiority of the Greek people and their right to be pampered, praised and getting blowjobs by every other nation in the universe is racist and zionist scum.<br />-Anybody that recognises value and good intentions to Jewish people is Zionist scum.Albanian-descended Greeknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8152579395264351661.post-43564858997821368712009-06-12T18:15:10.868+02:002009-06-12T18:15:10.868+02:00Indeed! But this is not surprising, as antisemitis...Indeed! But this is not surprising, as antisemitises anywhere are not bothered by facts or logic when their objective is to associate prominent Jews with conspiracies and other nefarious activities.Hellenic reporterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12801796032504172870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8152579395264351661.post-44720574885004177072009-06-12T17:37:41.198+02:002009-06-12T17:37:41.198+02:00That's funny, Macedonian antisemites think tha...That's funny, Macedonian antisemites think that George Soros is on Greece's side in the name dispute exactly because of the role of the NGO's he funds.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com